tv [untitled] CSPAN July 1, 2009 11:30pm-12:00am EDT
wouldn't give them the experimental robot back they liked it so much. so we have seen this shift and to the arming aspect of it, one of the things the book wrestles with is when you asked was almost like the lord baltimore issue, thou shall not be discussed if we are talking about harry potter parallels here because there's all sorts of logics that t. cost on this pathway that we don't like to talk about. so one is a personal savings issue. ..
going quicker and quicker so they have the counter samper devices that use acoustics and lasers to sniper shoots the unit, it immediately point said the unit comeuppance a laser beam target on the sniper said. if you don't react quick enough the guy goes back down so you lost an opportunity so technically is easy to put a laser on the, one of the gun as well, another logical path when that gets you there so the point is to get each of these logical pathways that take you down this final frontier of army and that leads to the other part of your question of which is what makes ethical now and that is actually
one of the parts of the debate i want to put out there. we really should debate whether it is or not in the circumstances that make ethical are not and that's not just things like the loss of robotics like isaac asimov but who should be able to control them, is a predator drawn only technology. too late, the department of homeland security has six of them. how about something the federal government should have and local police departments. too late, l.a. police in burma and is purchasing its own drums. atlanta won private system has its own ground robot. these are weird frontier questions but there already upon us in this debate we need to have because you can't make moral machines. morality is something about people. you can program their machines but you can make them moral where ethical, and has to come from us.
other questions or comments? >> is a the kind of continuation of the ethical question, you talk about the fact of lot of the soldiers who are employing the unmanned systems that they are referencing them as video games and we have heard there is obviously an ethical debate in just to the video games currently used in the sense there are too violent for children to be doing so it is dangerous to overall societal morality an ethical perspective is. but when talking about this as soldiers what did you find in was the majority of the ethical voice reference saying. obviously it is spread another princess society and i guess for us as of the future leaders and officers is that responsibility mainly placed on us from you
found having to raise ethical questions -- are they the ones having to leave the debates or is there actually greater audience that is interesting in this issue altogether? >> antacid question and it got to the heart of the challenges that people are talking about enough. so how is it different being a commander of the unit that uses robotics, a drone squadron at versus a regular units so i went around interviewing and it was interesting to see the difference and expenses for air force colonel who had previously led a coup squadron but deploying into cent,. he actually describe that it was more difficult leading this unit that was fighting from afar than the one deployed and there was a lot of challenges. one was you have the fact of
people at your 24/7, his unit was in a plane together and getting together which had that sense of team and also meant the have the decompression between intensity of, and when i get home. instead his unit was on a shift never once in the same place. they go in and 20 minutes later they are at home and have all the demands of home, the wife is mad at them because they relate for soccer practice, the kids are mad at them because you didn't show up to pta or sign this so his challenge is he found people were burning the candle at both ends of a stick. that was a challenge. the responsibilities put on them, they were in a peacetime base and so they had all of the administrative bureaucratic crap to deal with that someone deployed would not have to do even though his unit was running for seven and needed to be on a
comment ainge. fuca this very challenging and i didn't have a structure to turn to. there are making it up along the way. he described how he wished that they would go the way sports teams to before playoff games, they may be at home but they go all live in a hotel together and trade together and families of this pushed aside. and he hoped they would do that, but the problem is that would involve everyone telling their families it is actually tougher and me to be around you. remember i was gone for the last. now everyone is happy, it is better for me to be divided and no one wanted to have that conversation so the idea he described how it was a major challenge that he wanted to make sure everyone working for him that focus in that this was not a video game in that he would have to fight for information and feedback from forces in the field. have you utilize our
information, how did that work out? he tried to bring back people returning from the field having them cycle through so that they could have that communication. they tried different tracks. they wear five suits even though they are not in the air to get that mental edge and this is one of the challenges it is fine to get more difficult as you see more of these systems in use in video games as a platform for how we do training in how we control them. the controller for the ground and robotics with like the pacbots and the talent, they are actually modeled after the x box and the playstation controllers. the military's prewriting offer a video game industry for to release my reasons -- one is sony, microsoft, nintendo, they spend tens of millions of dollars design in the professors system to fit your hands so why not just of the design? the other aspect is they spend
tens of millions of dollars training you and the use of it so right menu showing you can figure out how to use it very quickly. now, the challenge is that they are finding for example when using the same controller in seeing it through a video screen the difference between a training exercise in the real exercise is only in your head in, it's only how you interpret it, it looks almost the same so that puts the burden on the unit leader a lot more and a final notice, this ethical end. one of the people and that of was a special operations operator and he was back for the hunt for the top al qaeda died in iraq and he said anything that makes it easier to kill is not a good thing. i thought that was a real resonance quote coming from probably one of the mostly the people in our entire force, and giving us this morning that you do want to make it too easy.
>> bonding that we discussed this morning with the military-industrial complex and america, how do you think this new robotics trend continues to that factor? >> really need to question and it is a big worry as a reference, this is a global industry. there is a chapter in the buck, robots that don't like apple pie and it is about how might the u.s. repeated experience of other nations that have been a believer in technology and fell behind. goes a long two ways -- one is the doctrine that we choose for having using these. as you probably learned is not how many of the system you have more often how good it is. it is now realize it and organize around it, that's the story of the tank for example. we have a challenge right now, what is the doctrine on how you use these systems and i remember
one capt. and out in the middle east said think it is not let's think this better, it is only give me more and that we have gone from saying we don't want these unmanned systems to we want them as much as possible and if you that the defense budget is the one part growing by around 200% per year but we still haven't figured out what is the best way to utilize and how you organize and is a mother ship model of warfare in terms of you've got a system that essentially controlled so it is concentrated command and control the distributed firepower or is in a swarm of war were you have decentralize command and control but conversion firepower. these are two different models, which is right and wrong? choose right you have greeted the blitzkrieg, so that is one part of the sink and the other
is the defense industrial complex. what is we build which can often share the doctrine and a concern is that we have a bigger is better mentality when it comes to what we build and buy some of the cover of the book is a picture of the sunland jet fighter peridot is in the size of a school bus. when the price is out ultimately it will cost around $80 million. are you going to use and $80 million system even if it doesn't have a pilot and it is possibly, are you going to send out just to get blown up? we have a defense industrial complex that specializes bigger is better in terms of the company, there's only a few top companies that dominate the field. bigger is better in terms of the prices and the price overruns, bigger is better in terms of how long it takes to build these systems because we're talking about this morning the f-22 first conceived back in the late 1970's and doesn't apply to join
our air force until 2007 so if it was a computer it would be apple conceiving the macintosh back in the '70s by not delivering the very first macintosh until 2007 so a question for all of us is bigger is better the way war will be in the future? what if it is smaller is better? when a thin is better to have a large number of really tiny to disposable systems? what if it is better in terms of the companies to have a lot of small innovative companies network? what if it is better in terms of the time on where you're always getting next generation versions like the ipod? i worry that we specialize bigger is better and could enter a where -- era of war were smaller is better. >> one additive to that, an example of the army future comments systems is a great illustration and the first
program for this, there were no small unmanned systems in the plan and it was because it was actually run by large defense contractor and the company that made the small systems wasn't part of the traditional d.c. ground. was only bottom up demand, only the soldiers in the field saying in a sense of the small ones we use every day. it is not a large unmanned tanks we want. that's the only reason that it has changed to include those smaller companies and the smaller robots and what is ironic that as the one part of that that has now survived the budget cutbacks because it was the demand from the field level. >> we have seen on a lot of these robots use in iraq and afghanistan and i was wondering when you thought about these being used in a conventional conflict as well as nonconventional conflict? >> interesting question and it cuts to this one is the future of war.
there are defined almost different meaning ahead of us in terms of unconventional and conventional. i personally think we will see more highbred threats. you see a hezbollah may be announced in organization may engage in terrorist actions but it is also able to launch both drones and crew -- cruise missiles at capacity. you have china, of course, one of the top potential conventional threats out there but also has over a thousand computer hackers working for it which is a classic is a mature action so i think this is one of the things one way to create a stovepipes we may be setting ourselves up for a fall and more so in what we buy can we afford to have systems that are only good for a coin in counter insurgency and others in the only good for conventional sustain in the training our position paragon. i would argue that the biggest
bang for our buck in terms of defense dollars is finding those systems that are crossed by trauma. that are useful for what ever the dumbing of conflict in this and when we may be surprised by is that it may not be in as much the pointy end of the. that makes a difference so i'll use the example of a finally got to start calling in the end, the top al qaeda leader in iraq. we cannot find him so well what was a military problem, and intelligence problem, the jordanians got a human intelligence tip that he was seeking the advice of a new religious leader. so they pass on that human intelligence tip to us, our analyst took that and said this is an important step, we're going to use this so they couldn't find him so they popped a drone or a set of them over and that religious leader who they could find and you couldn't
have him follow an 24/7 by troops on the ground. they would have stood and obviously so they follow this guy ran everywhere he went and one day they see him go to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and that or he was meeting. tejon put a laser target and f-16 los among and that is how we get him. a question is this, which was in the operation? who said the six minutes that the f-16 pilot flew in and dropped computer guided bombs within or wasn't the whole back end of isr both robotic in human -- to that point? which was the operation? second question, who is most likely to make a flag officer out of that sad involved in the operation? and that i think is a challenge in it and be the same if we were
talking about trying to find the chinese mobile sam site. increasingly the challenge isn't putting steel on target, is finding targets whether conventional or unconventional and that is one of the aspects will have to continue to wrestle with finding systems that useful in both entities. >> unfortunately we are at a time, i want to take this time do think that our time constrained in revenue from day to day i often ask what does this mean to make an impact me in and think over the last hour you have capt. that of the issues and the impacts whether mid-level officer let myself or these cadets who are about to graduate in 25 days. i thank you have done that with them because it is going to impact us and there are going to be implications for us in the room. thank you on behalf of the department of social sciences and the military academy. thank you very much.
>> again i want to think of you not just from listening but for the service you'll be giving a nation. >> if you like what you heard in haven't got a chance to pick up the boat he will be in the bookstore on the fourth floor for 1400 to 1600 to sign the books and chat about any other questions you might have regarding this or anything else you might have undermined policy related. thank you. yçço[ fo8i]ë íñru!%
have a c-span funded? >> donations. >> government. >> c-span gets its funding to the taxes. >> federal funding. >> i don't know king balckout is c-span funded? >> 30 years ago america's cable companies created c-span as a public service, a private business initiatives, and noñrym government mandate, no >> and non an hourlong discussion3ww3 between a guessn author of a new book. this week uraguayan author eduardo galeano talks about his latest book, "mirrors: stories of almost everyone". he also discusses his 1971 book "open veins of latin america" which it venezuelan president
chavez gave to president obama duran the summit in april. he is interviewed by john dinges, a journalism professor at columbiarovd ,ç the authorf by terrorism to three continents. the. >> host: below, we are year with one of the authors that i have admired myxd/hàkç whole l, eduardoçóçó."ñxd galeano. uruguay. and mentioned to him just a minute ago that i have had his books in my head for decades. one of the reasons that i became involved in line america in writing as a journalist was because of your works. so it is really a great pleasure for me to be here with. >> guest: thank you. >> host: you have been in the states for a while now?
how long? >> guest: 10 minutes. >> host: you just arrived and you are going to new york this dragon after words other cities to help my new baby called an era. to help them to walk. >> host: this is in the book, "mirrors". "mirrors: stories of almost everyone". but, of course, i checked out the spanish title -- which is a little bit different. it means universal history almost. >> guest: almost because you could say universe and its sounds so solomon air again to -- air again and my intention
was to write a homage to human diversity. without boundaries and without years. or from frontier is of time and frontiers of of the map. it was a mad adventure end of the titles are more or less time to say it is serious but no different. >> host: i think it is less serious when it is called the stories of almost everyone because almost everyone is in this book. and particularly people who are not usually mentioned in both history. give us a couple examples of the kinds of stories that you're telling them to think characterize what kind of a book this is. >> guest: yes my intention was
i neverzv now with the result is will commence a good intention was to rescue the beauty and of the terrestrial rainbow. we are much morexd than what we are told we are. theçw3 official history has manipulated our past and present -- history. so we( are much more ofççñ th. and what we are toldor forxñgr instanceç]
it is not a work of nonfiction, serious analysis. it is a book of stories and i think they will catch this. this is how long the stories are. sometimes in the stories are half a page. most of the time they are between one and one and half pages long. just for fun, would you read the first or in the book just to
give us an idea? >> guest: born of desire. >> host: born of desire. >> guest: life was alone with them and no memory. it had hands, but no one to touch. it had a time, but no one to talk to. one womb and then the desire to its bow. in the air and desires analyze data in the middle in the line was taken. in one when they caught sight of a tether they laughed and when they touched each other men laughed again. >> host: i think that is a great example and, of course, it
made me think of genesis. >> guest: yes this is sort of a myth and legend and are part of real life, and dreams and nightmares are part of it daily life. >> host: is one of the most affectionate pieces in the hundreds of pieces. i thank you said something is there is 600 sword story. >> guest: 600, very short stories who finally survive after a process of the timing and renouncing, sacrificing some of the i think 800 or 850 short-story is in the first version, but it was composed as a 17 quote so on the melody would have a continued --
continuity and read them and some of this beware was so sad and it touched my back saying, why, why? and i ugly? and i'm not -- illini beautiful and the? am i stupid? widened to sacrifice may? i want to be there. yes, i said it, of course, i know you want to, sorry but i can't. this is a problem with mosaics which i love to ride, but there are some and a little pieces, short pieces and i am in love with each one of them and who, when the date must create a whole wall one in there not some little pieces.
>> host: you wrote another book called the "memory of fire" which is a trilogy. i read that in the 1980's were and to do similar things. it is more overtly historical, we but the narrative structure is similar. you start out with a kind of genesis. it is all about latin america. >> guest: about america including north america empyrean the americas because we are america's and the south. the language gets suppressed their, but we are american of so and the home "memory of fire" i was trying to rescue the collective memory of the americaness in three volumes. this was something in this was a
man project because it is the entire world. >> host: an entire history. i thought of kafka as i was reading this because i have been a fan of cafta from above and think people associate you more with a great men american writers and i know to be in the same sentence with others is daunting, and those are authors who are household words in the united states. in that america you are certainly as well known as they are and what is interesting is that all three of you are journalists